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Tagged: sequences
- This topic has 48 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 9 months ago by AlleyCatRocker1980s.
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November 13, 2014 at 6:12 pm #1875metaljParticipant
I wanted to start a thread about sequences. I am obsessed with sequences because it makes guitar songwriting easier (a little). What is a sequence? A repeating combination or sequence of notes. You’ve heard sequences a million times in metal and rock. It sounds like something similar being played acending or decending. There are two basic types of sequences exact and tonal. An exact sequence is like playing the exact same thing reguardless of if the notes are in the scale. A tonal sequence is playing the same pattern but changing the intervals so all of the notes are in the scale. How do you communicate a sequence? Well first i find the lowest note in the pattern an name it 1. Then i label notes from 1 to 7 in a 7 note scale.
Then i create a pattern like 2-1-2 or 1-3-5 and write it out like 2-1-2,3-2-3,4-3-4 and then i got it. So you don’t know your scales yet then get a neck diagram book (they are cheap) and fill in all the dots and you have a cheat sheet to make your own sequences. It’s easier if you make them horizontal meaning go from fret 1 to fret 12 across you know the harder but actually easier way. Then add some rhythm and phrasing and you’ve got licks and riffs and song starters into infinity. Tab them in the guitar pro app’s memo section and your doing great things without even picking up a guitar. Write new warmups and exercises every day.Jay aka the letter J
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November 13, 2014 at 8:53 pm #1877Dan MummParticipant
Excellent description of sequences Metal J. I too am a big fan of sequences and have been using them for practice for years. I’d love to jump into this discussion.
For those who are familiar with Classical music, it’s interesting to see how sequences are used in composition. Of course, it doesn’t have to be Classical music necessarily, but it is the best example. Most of the time there is a chord progression that is implied in a segment of a composition and each iteration of the sequence is dancing around the arpeggio of the implied chord. This can be easily done by building phrases out of arpeggios using passing tones from the scale in between the notes of the chord. Obviously, for composition, there doesn’t have to be rigidity in the sequence and variation will add a lot. The most basic example would be to run through a triad with an octave on top: 1-3-5-8 with each note landing on a down beat. Then, add passing tones in between such as: 1-2-3-4-5-7-8 (I chose 7 instead of 6 because it is also a leading tone). This is an incredibly boring example as it is very nearly running through the scale. However, when you take into account that the notes of the triad do not have to be played in order and the passing tones do not have to be ‘in between’ the notes, the possibilities are endless. Making use of leading tones usually makes for the best sound as it creates tension and release within the phrase. Since each downbeat has a note from the implied chord in it, the tonal center is typically apparent throughout each phrase.
The idea of using passing tones between the notes of an arpeggio that land on downbeats also figures into Jazz improvisation – the important difference here is that we would be making a sequence out of it. However, using this method, it’s easy to improvise as a solo guitarist and maintain the feel of a chord progression throughout – even though you are only playing one note at a time.
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November 14, 2014 at 6:30 am #1878barks62Participant
I absolutely love practicing sequences. Do either of you have any favorites to share? Sequences seem like they would be easy to come up with on your own, but I have found that I am not at all creative and I can only do what I’m told, so I need to have things spelled out for me.
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November 14, 2014 at 7:50 am #1879metaljParticipant
I will be posting sequences here soon a few at a time. Sequences can be personal but i don’t mind sharing. Also i’d like it if other forum members posted some they made up and also standards and any info about sequences they find on the net (articles,youtube). We may have to move this thread to support guitar pro files. Cory once you see the examples of sequences you will see that its not hard.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 8:45 pm #1924metaljParticipant
here’s my version. they’re not all winners some are better than others.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 14, 2014 at 8:30 am #1880metaljParticipant
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 6:36 pm #1917superblondeKeymaster
Great videos thanks for posting. A bit frustrating though. He says download his PDF (which just lists his patterns in a simple way) then takes several minutes of video time to explain that “99%” of players interpret his PDF wrong and then explaining how it’s really supposed to be played. Dude. If the PDF were good and correctly annotated to begin with (i.e. a good tab), maybe 99% would not be confused by the practice material. A good picture is worth 10,000 words.
The idea to practice each one at least 3,000 times in order to really get it down is fascinating. Very important point mentioned here. I wonder where that number came from.
I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.
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November 14, 2014 at 8:34 am #1881metaljParticipant
Some of these are intervals and some are described as scale exercises but they don’t want you to know it’s anything that sounds good and you’ve been doing stuff like this since day 1. Just take any lick “transpose” it up 1 scale note then 1 more and you’ve done it. I can’t express how easy this is (cough horizontal).
Here is one i use for my song sea quence
1-1-2-3-2-1, 2-2-3-4-3-2, 3-3-4-5-4-3
Once you create something like this tab it out starting on each note of the scale in order.Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 7:40 pm #1921superblondeKeymaster
Just take any lick “transpose” it up 1 scale note then 1 more and you’ve done it. I can’t express how easy this is (cough horizontal). Here is one i use for my song sea quence 1-1-2-3-2-1, 2-2-3-4-3-2, 3-3-4-5-4-3 Once you create something like this tab it out starting on each note of the scale in order.
You mean like this?
tab – attached
I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good.Attachments:
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November 15, 2014 at 7:57 pm #1923metaljParticipant
Excellent!! Actually that appears to be an exact sequence. In what you quoted i was referring to a tonal sequence which is to take a short lick and move it up to the next note in the scale. Like A minor for instance, first note is A move that A to a B like the same pattern in the next mode. It takes a minit to do thats why i recommend a short phrase and using a cheat sheet ( neck diagram ) for reference because it’s wwhwwwh not hhhhhhh. I hope this helps.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 14, 2014 at 10:15 am #1884Dan MummParticipant
Phew – I just spent the last 30 minutes writing up a complex description and example and then after submitting it discovered I wasn’t logged in. It was all lost. I’ll try to recapture it now, but I don’t have as much time. I’ve got to get used to how the forum works.
Here is the basic gist – the sequence follows a specific chord progression. In this case, a classic progression that was popular in Baroque Classical music and is popular in Neo-Classical Metal. The descending 5ths progression – typically used as going down a 5th, up a 4th, etc., to keep everything closer together. This particular example is based on D-minor but will include modulation, harmonic and melodic minor – but don’t be overly concerned with that as this will work with any chord progression.
For this example, the progression is Dm, Gm, C, F, Bb, E, A
To start the sequence, we will use quarter notes and only notes from the arpeggio of the chord. Think of this as the skeleton of the sequence. Let’s say: 1-5-3-5 (for Dm, that’s: D-A-F-A). Each note lands on the downbeat of the measure.
Now we will add passing tones in between each of the notes and play everything as 8th notes. For this example let’s say: 1-4-5-2-3-4-5-1. We will use the root at the end because it is also the 5th of the next chord – making it an excellent leading tone. This is a common transition. If you were to repeat each sequence pattern before changing to the next chord, you could use the 2 as the last note on the first time around and the 1 on the second time around. The 2 leads nicely back to the 1, and the 1 will lead nicely into the next chord.
Here is the full sequence:
D-G-A-E-F-G-A-D | G-C-D-A-Bb-C-D-G | C-F-G-D-E-F-G-C | F-Bb-C-G-A-Bb-C-F | Bb-E-F-C-D-E-F-Bb | E-A-B-F#-G#-A-B-E |
A-D-E-B-C#-D-E-A |
And there you have it. I’m sorry if there are any mistakes in the sequence. I’m kind of rushed now trying to write it all out again. Let me know if you notice anything and I’ll fix it ASAP.
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November 14, 2014 at 1:05 pm #1886metaljParticipant
First two the same (minor)
Next two same (major)
Then ? Dim with major 3rd? Augmented 4th?
Chords seem to be moving in 4ths.Jay aka the letter J
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November 14, 2014 at 1:28 pm #1888metaljParticipant
Lydian major type.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 14, 2014 at 1:44 pm #1889metaljParticipant
Duh you explained it.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 14, 2014 at 4:58 pm #1897vinayParticipant
Whoa, thanks a lot for all this! I haven’t absorbed all of it. I never manage to work my way through a youtube video (especially as most of these “instructors” tend talk so monotone) so I really appreciate those lengthy writeups from Dan!
Somehow those explanations on intervals by Sarah and DJ (in LGDNA1) work better with me than the fretboard maps as explained in the basic course. It is different for everyone, I understand. I do get what is being explained in stage 6, but I can’t put it to music. It is just mathematics to me.
Easiest for me is to think that 1 (and 8) and 5 are stable, so that’s where a phrase could start or end. 3 and 7 help to link the lot together so those could help me get there. Then, for some tension use those other notes to resolve to the 1 (or 8) or 5. Raising or lowering the 5 a half step adds some dissonance which also needs to resolve to the 5.
I don’t have such a good grasp on chord changes yet, but DJ does explain it in LGDNA and I do get his point, similar to what Dan mentions. It’s been a while since I looked into that. The ways to create a chord progression and a pattern that goes with it as mentioned here, is also discussed in the new course by Dan? I’d love to learn about this, especially with the arpeggio’s. It should finally get me some more inspiration create some more interesting stuff on the classical guitar and maybe match it with my electric guitar playing. Arpeggio’s fingerstyle on a classical guitar are a breeze compared to playing them on an electric :).
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November 14, 2014 at 5:11 pm #1898metaljParticipant
I didn’t get stage 6 at first sarah had to explain it to me.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 14, 2014 at 5:31 pm #1900metaljParticipant
This video calls them melodic patterns i have a book that calls them scale applications but they are sequences.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 12:17 pm #1910Dan MummParticipant
Hey Vinay, I’m really glad that you found my posts here useful. The original second post of mine was much more in depth, but like I mentioned it got lost since I wasn’t logged in. At some point I’ll try to fill in any blanks that may have been left when I rewrote it out. In Classical Masterpieces for Metal Guitar, there is a particular section from Vivaldi that does exactly what I was talking about here.
Metal J, it is interesting how many different ways people will refer to the same thing in music. This is especially true in Rock and Metal styles as I think those (or we) musicians are more likely to independently work on something and come up with a name for it – which sometimes the name catches on among musicians in the genre. I’ve always found it really confusing to be honest heh heh.
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November 15, 2014 at 12:30 pm #1911metaljParticipant
Another thing is how generic the sequences you find on the net are. I’m hoping to come up with some good ones.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 4:21 pm #1913metaljParticipant
This would make a cool sequence.
Jay aka the letter J
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June 18, 2015 at 8:15 pm #6829AlleyCatRocker1980sParticipant
Wow.
In that lesson, I heard alot of Cross Roads,…Cream, & the beginning ofCho,Cho, Mama,…Ten Years After!
Alot of scales,hammer ons,& pull offs!
Practicing Guitar
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November 15, 2014 at 5:54 pm #1915metaljParticipant
Motifs and sequences are similar in some important ways.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 6:22 pm #1916metaljParticipant
Here is another motif one.
Thanks to doug and his new forum rules for making this thread possible. And dan mumm for participating.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 6:51 pm #1919PaulWolfeParticipant
Fascinating topic! I believe my first foray into sequencing was after reading about Randy Rhoads’ playing. Here is the gist of what I learned by studying Randy: https://www.guitarworld.com/soloing-strategies-randy-rhoads-scales-blues-licks-and-daring-chromatic-maneuvers
Here’s another good example:
or this:
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November 15, 2014 at 7:10 pm #1920metaljParticipant
Thanks paul i wanted to bring this up for a little while but doug recently made it possible. I started thinking about an app i used to have with six sided dice. If i rolled a couple of six sided dice they could represent the six notes i could comfortably reach. Then i thought of a melodic sequence generator app. Heh heh.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 15, 2014 at 9:16 pm #1926superblondeKeymaster
Maybe you want to post more videos as separate threads. This one is really bogging down with all the embedded youtube’s. Or is it just my old browser software?
Anyway I see what you mean about the wwhwwwh instead of just “all up +1”. Fit the scale tones, yeah. I wonder if it is easier for the piano guys – a linear set of ivory’s – instead of 2D guitar neck.
I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good. -
November 15, 2014 at 9:30 pm #1927metaljParticipant
Yeah i noticed the bogging down myself when i switched to my pc. I showed the crazy train example in a different post closer to the top.my pc really doesn’t work good that’s probably why it replyed to the wrong post. This topic is too long mabey i’ll make a part 2 in a thread that supports gpx files. I realized when i did the crazy train transfer i needed a specific cheat sheet for the specific scale i’m gonna try and post some of my cheat sheets that might be helpful. Save you some of the hassle i called easy.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 16, 2014 at 11:51 am #1932metaljParticipant
Here is some info i found on a bass guitar website.
Playing sequence patterns helps you in many ways. The first benefit you will see is your fingers learn to move in new ways.
You are also forced to think about the underlying scale or chord in a new way. Early on, people have a hard time playing a scale starting from somewhere other than the root. That’s going to hold you back. A lot of music doesn’t start off of the root. Melodic sequences will make you start to think about the pattern more deeply and gain a better understanding of the pattern’s structure.
Most importantly, you will start to hear the underlying pattern better. I encourage you to hum or sing the patterns as you play them. This will strengthen your ear and its connection to the fretboard and the scale/chord on which you are working.
The stronger your connection to these musical patterns of scales and chords is, the more you will be able to express your musical thoughts.
You probably won’t play these complete sequence patterns in a bassline. That would sound like an exercise. Instead, bits and pieces of it will come out. They become part of your musical vocabulary.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 16, 2014 at 6:30 pm #1944Steve DunlapParticipant
Thanks Jay for this interesting thread. Also thanks to Dan for contributing. Learning some new things and some cool licks. Also thanks go out to Doug!
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November 16, 2014 at 8:50 pm #1948Dan MummParticipant
It’s my pleasure. This is my kind of thread. I meant to get on today and post some more sequence ideas from my perspective – but I’ve had a really busy weekend. I’ll try to do that tomorrow and get caught up on the thread.
Dan
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November 17, 2014 at 2:35 pm #1955Dan MummParticipant
Hey guys, here are a few of my favorite sequences for practicing scales and modes. Each of these work really well for memorizing and practicing scales or modes and is a great warm-up. I’ve been using these for years.
1. The skipping sequence – which is simply 1-3 and works its way up a scale or mode. If we were to look at this sequence with scale degrees, it would look like this: 1-3-2-4-3-5-4-6-5-7-6-8. This can be continued up additional octaves and then played in reverse as 8-6-7-5-6-4-5-3-4-2-3-1
2. The three note sequence – which is simply 1-2-3 and works its way up in the same fashion. This works really well when playing as triplets. Counting in scale degrees it would look like this 1-2-3 | 2-3-4 | 3-4-5 | 4-5-6 | 5-6-7 | 6-7-8. Again, it can be continued and played backwards.
3. The four note sequence – which could be played as 16th notes: 1-2-3-4 | 2-3-4-5 | etc. can be continued or played backwards.
4. An ascending/descending sequence – which goes 1-2-3-4-5-6-5-4 | 2-3-4-5-6-7-6-5 | 3-4-5-6-7-8-7-6 | etc. Backwards would go 8-7-6-5-4-3-4-5 | 7-6-5-4-3-2-3-4 | 6-5-4-3-2-1-2-3 | etc.
As Metal J indicated before, the sky is the limit. My personal method is to try to find a sequence pattern that is the most awkward for me to play and to practice it up through a scale or mode with the metronome, progressively increasing the speed, until it becomes easy. That way, you are sure to find and build up the “weak links” in your technique.
One perspective that might help players visualize both the modes and sequences in general is the idea that the modes are essentially a sequence themselves. The sequence would be playing 7 notes up the scale for each note in the scale. For example, in the key of G, the first mode (Ionian) is G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-(G), the second mode (Dorian) is A-B-C-D-E-F#-G-(A) and the third mode (Phrygian) is B-C-D-E-F#-G-A-(B) and so on, etc. The sequence pattern is 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-(8) and one sequence is played per note of the G scale.
Dan
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November 17, 2014 at 3:29 pm #1956metaljParticipant
here are the cheat sheets I promised. took a couple minits to put together.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 17, 2014 at 5:14 pm #1959metaljParticipant
My next post will contain all the sequences mentioned so far in this thread. It may take a minit. 🙂
Jay aka the letter J
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November 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm #1963Top GunParticipant
This is a great thread Jay thanks for starting this. There a lot of good info to digest here.
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November 21, 2014 at 4:48 pm #2060metaljParticipant
Here are most of the sequences:
Pentatonic-(2-1-2, 3-2-3, 4-3-4)
All the rest are diatonic
(1-3-5, 2-4-6, 3-5-7)
(1-3-5-8)
(1-2-3-4-5-7-8)
(1-1-5-1-6-1-5-1)
(1-3, 2-4, 3-5)
(1-2-3-4, 2-3-4-5)
(1-2-3-1, 2-3-4-2)
(1-1-2-3-2-1, 2-2-3-4-3-2)
(1-5-3-5, 2-6-4-6)
(1-4-5-2-3-4-5-1)
(1-2-3, 2-3-4, 3-4-5)
(1-3-2-1, 2-4-3-2)
(1-3-4-3, 2-4-5-4)
(1-3-6-3, 2-4-7-4)
(1-2-3-2, 2-3-4-3)
(1-2-3-4-5-6-5-4)There ya go. Don’t forget to download a cheat sheet. Pebber browns list is free on his site.
Jay aka the letter J
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November 24, 2014 at 6:20 pm #2136Dan MummParticipant
That’s quite a treasure trove right there. This was a great thread. Thanks Metal J, for putting this together. I’m thinking I might start a similar type of thread and try to get anyone who is interested to contribute. I’ve always felt that you can learn a great deal by seeing other people’s perspectives on guitar. I taught private lessons for about 12 years in Sacramento, and I felt that I learned something from every student I ever taught – well, a good deal of them anyway heh heh. But even straight up beginners (unknowingly) had something to teach, because their perspective is completely fresh (and sometimes slightly skewed). You know, it helps you to think outside the box. Anyway… maybe something on improvisation or chord progressions. I’ll try to get it started tomorrow.
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November 24, 2014 at 7:46 pm #2138metaljParticipant
Thanks. Doug inspired this thread with his forum rules post i couldn’t have pulled it off without the youtube videos. I am no writer and couldn’t communicate on this level without the videos believe me i tried.
Jay aka the letter J
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December 1, 2014 at 5:42 pm #2233Dan MummParticipant
Well it worked out really well. I suppose it is pretty difficult to try to explain this stuff on the forum. I’ve reread some of the posts that I made both to this thread and the improv thread, and I could see them being extremely difficult to follow. Hopefully with a little bit of practice, it will be easier to do. But nothing can take the place of having both a verbal explanation and a visual demonstration. Great choices too by the way.
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December 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm #2304metaljParticipant
I’ve found a number generator app that i could do sequences with. My problem was finding one with the correct parameters. So this app i found will generate 500 numbers between 1&6 or 1&8 or whatever. If i could have more odds of a specific number showing up or more odds of certain numbers following other numbers that would be awesome. Mabey i could do that with scratch.
Jay aka the letter J
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December 7, 2014 at 1:57 pm #2334Dan MummParticipant
Wow, that sounds like a really interesting idea. Be sure to post some of your favorites. I’m going to have to look into trying that myself.
I have a brother who is also a musician but makes his living as a computer programmer. He’s into some really unusual and obscure styles of music. A number of years ago, he created a program that would generate melodic sequences, using Schoenberg’s (the inventor of the “12-tone technique”) rules as the program’s parameters. He did it just for fun, but came out with some really interesting stuff. He would then take those melodic sequences and build songs around them. Obviously, it was all very weird sounding heh heh. But I always thought that was a cool idea – it just didn’t have much of a practical application. But it would be really effective for creating sequences for practicing the guitar. Obviously the parameters could be changed for diatonic or pentatonic scales – which would make it a much simpler program. I’ll have to ask him about it.
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December 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm #2335metaljParticipant
I started using the number 1 as a jumping off point so every time i see the number 1 i start the sequence there. Those patterns that can’t be used as scale sequences can be reused as sequence riffs like with powerchords. My only problem is i keep locking down extremely similar rhythms. So i’m going to try and mix it up a bit. I think i could do an albums worth of songs with this technique easy. I read a book a few days ago that mentioned the technique in passing and dismissed it saying it’s less music and more of a tone poem.
Jay aka the letter J
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December 26, 2014 at 11:02 pm #2684metaljParticipant
I was talking to my brother and he wants to play rocksmith and i thought it would be cool if i could speed teach him guitar. So i came up with exact sequences. The sequences i found were in two books total scales techniques and applications and fretboard mastery. Then i converted the sequences to the six note natural minor shape and tabbed them with guitar pro. Did i mention playing them chromatically? Then when he learns to pick switch over to speed and accuracy.
Jay aka the letter J
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January 19, 2015 at 5:41 pm #3116metaljParticipant
Since this is the 2nd most popular topic i figure i’ll further explain about how to use the cheat sheets by tabbing some sequences with guitar pro. Then you will see the versitility of horizontal playing.
Jay aka the letter J
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January 26, 2015 at 4:48 pm #3295superblondeKeymaster
This past weekend I was looking into rockabilly which I really dig. Also the tunes are often easy, so I might be able to play them 😀
Anyway here is a sequence “similar to” Brian Setzer. Courtesy of this lesson here “Rhythm Rules: Brian Setzer’s Rockabilly Antics” https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21016-rhythm-rules-brian-setzers-rockabilly-antics – see the riff in “Exercise 1” here: https://www.premierguitar.com/LESS_RR_Jun14_EX1
The riff can be converted to a single string:
3,3,7,7,8,8,9,9,10,10,9,9,8,8,7,7 (then play turnaround chords and repeat).
That’s the rockabilly sound right there. I guess this is like a walking bass line but on the rhythm guitar. How it converts to the “1” scale sequence notation, I’m not sure yet.
I'm an intermediate student of Metal Method. I play seitannic heavy metal. All Kale Seitan! ♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
And on the Seventh Day, Mustaine said: ∇ ⨯ E = - ∂B / ∂t ; and there was Thrash; and it had a ♭3; and it was good. -
February 3, 2015 at 12:35 pm #3508metaljParticipant
1,1,5,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,7,7,6,6,5,5?
Jay aka the letter J
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